Renault FT & TSF: A typical unit structure

Weald Foundation has performed all their detailed work on the back of extensive research, but it has failed to provide answers to some straightforward questions from members of the public.

One of these questions is – what was the split of Hotchkiss M1914 Mitrailleuse tanks to the Puteaux 39mm Canon tanks in a unit? Another was – were the Renault TSF tanks actually part of the tank unit or were they completely separate?  These two questions do not concern the tactics or deployment of these tanks in the field – rather the makeup of the units themselves.

There is a significant amount of archive material on the Renault FT, 37mm and MG, but not much on the Renault TSF. A lot of the detailed material on both the FT and TSF is unfortunately post-war in origin and is, therefore, suspect when considering WW1 specifics regarding unit makeup or deployment. One very good example of this is the Manual Pratique du Char Renault written by Captain Goutay and dated 1922. This is undoubtedly the result of many years of experience in operating these machines and has allowed systems and approaches to evolve and be fine-tuned over time. What happened in 1918 is of more consequence for us – how did tactics and doctrine develop during the war in 1918?

Renault FT

One manual provides a glimpse into the use of the Renault FT in 1918. It is titled Instruction provisoire sur la manœuvre des unités de chars léger – Provisional Instruction on the Manoeuvre of Light Tank Units. A key point is that it is dated 24th June 1918.

The answer to both questions is contained in the text. The Weald Foundation have taken the liberty of translating the relevant area directly and providing the text in full.


  1. Company. The company, a technical and administrative unit, consists of three identical combat sections (troops/platoons) and an (support?) echelon with personnel and material for replacement, repair, breakdown and refuelling. A tank is also available to the company commander. A TSF tank in each company is at the disposal of the battalion commander.

The section (troop), commanded by a lieutenant or sub-lieutenant, includes 6 tanks of combat, namely: 1 37mm for the (troop chief) chief of section, 2 half sections each including 1 tank of 37mm and 1 tank machine gun and a tank of 75mm (not yet in use).

Each tank is crewed by 2 men: the tank commander, who is at the same time a gunner, and the mechanic, who drives the tank.

The tank crew of the T.S.F is 3 men, 1 tank commander, 1 radio operator and the mechanic/driver.

The echelon, commanded by a lieutenant or sub lieutenant, comprises 5 tanks of manoeuvre and replacement (3 tanks-guns of 37mm, 2 tank machine-gun) and 3 supply tanks of supply (2 tank of 37, 1 tank machine-gun).

The total strength of the company is 115 men, including 5 officers, 15 non-commissioned officers and 18 brigadiers. It will be increased by 3 NCOs and 6 men during the commissioning of the 75 gun tank.

  1. Battalion – The light tank battalion consists of 3 companies and a staff headed by the first battalion company.

This staff includes: 1 battalion commander, 1 tactical assistant who assists the battalion commander in combat, preparation, engagement and rallying; 1 technical assistant in charge of equipment and refuelling. When the units are equipped with TSF tanks, a liaison officer will be attached to the battalion commander.

  1. Regiment – The battalion is attached to a regiment of A.S (Artillerie Speciale) whose colonel is corps commander. The regiment includes a variable number of light tank battalions and medium or heavy tank groupings.

This article was brought to you by The Weald Foundation. To support this amazing charity you can become a member and have access to more articles and details about their work.

Source: The Weald Foundation

Historical: The German MKA Tank Project

Wargaming recently announced the MKA was entering Supertest stage in World of Tanks, but what is this mysterious tank?

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Mittlerer Kampfwagen fuer Ausland (MKA)

The MKA can be best described as a curious crossover between an early Panzer III and Panzer IV, designed to be exported overseas, only one prototype was built before the project was cancelled.

The origin of the Mittlerer Kampfwagen fuer Ausland (MKA) can be traced all the way back to 1935, Krupp and Daimler-Benz were competing for a production contract that would become the Panzer III. The Daimler-Benz’s design proved to be more favourable, Panzer III Ausf. A, but Krupp still felt their design was worthy and it would become the MKA.

The MKA is part of three similar projects, the Leichter Kampfwagen fuer Ausland (LKA), Light Tank for Overseas, and the Schwere Kampfwagen fuer Ausland (SKA), Heavy Tank for Overseas. The LKA project was based off the Panzer I, while the SKA would be an up-gunned version the MKA. The export program itself came about as a desire to sell tanks overseas, mainly inspired by what France was doing with the Renault R35. Germany was looking for a tank that would outperform any tank that was being exported, but at the same time, they didn’t want to sell their latest tank technology. Because of this, the LKA, MKA and SKA were to be simplified versions of pre-existing vehicles and designs.

In March 1937, the following design requirements were set for the export tank program:

[su_box title=”Design Requirements” style=”default” box_color=”#000000″ title_color=”#FFFFFF” radius=”0″]

Krupp’s Kampfwagen Ausland Programm March 1937
Type Engine Armament Armour
MG KA (l.K.A.1) V8 air-cooled Vp 85 PS 2 MG 13 normal
2 cm KA (l.K.A2) V8 air-cooled Vp 85 PS 2 cm MG / 1 MG 13 normal
The same chassis for both Kampfwagen. If demanded, a 90 horsepower water-cooled Ford V8 engine is planned.
2 cm KAv V8 air-cooled Vp 130 PS 2 cm MG / 1 MG 13 thicker
4.5 cm KA (m.KA) V8 air-cooled Vp 130 PS 4.5 cm K. / 2 MG 13 normal
The same chassis for both Kampfwagen. If demanded, a Maybach water-cooled engine is planned.
4.5 cm KAv 300 PS 4.5 cm K. / 2 MG 13 thicker
7.5 cm KA 300 PS 7.5 cm K. / 2 MG 13 normal

[/su_box]

In a second meeting in April, the design requirements were changed:

[su_box title=”Design Requirements” style=”default” box_color=”#000000″ title_color=”#FFFFFF” radius=”0″]

Krupp’s Kampfwagen Ausland Programm April 1937
Type Weight Engine Armament Armour Max. Speed
MG KA (LKA1) 4.5 t 90/100 HP 2 M.G. 13 normal 50
2 cm KA (LKA2) 5.5 t 90/100 HP 2 cm MG (Rhm), 1 M.G. 13 normal 50
4.5 cm KAv (MKA) 11-12 t 180/200 HP 4.5 cm Kan., 2 M.G. 13 thicker 40
2.5 cm KAv (KAv) 7 t 130 HP 2.5 cm Tankbuechse, 1 M.G. 13 thicker 40
7.5 cm KA (SKA) 16-18 t 300 HP 7.5 cm Kan., 2 M.G. 13 normal 35

[/su_box]

This change merged the 4,5 cm KA (m.KA) and the 4,5 cm KAv into one vehicle, the 4,5 cm KAv (MKA) and was to be given the 200 hp Maybach HL 76 engine, still in development at the time.

In June of 1937, the question was brought up as to whether or not Krupp’s MKA was to be released for export at all, or if it would be used by the German army. However, this decision would need to wait to see if the HL 76 engine would be completed in time. But by October 1937, the engine was still not available and Krupp was advised to use a 155 HP Maybach D.S.O.8 Motor instead, which worked well in various towing vehicles.

It wasn’t until the end of October, that Krupp completed the drawings to develop the 4.5 cm Kanone L/50 specifically for the MKA, with a weight of 1,385 kilograms, it could fire a shell at 750 m/s and penetrate up to 40 mm of armour at 1,000 meters. A turret was later designed in March 1938 and produced by August 1st of the same year.

The project was taking a long time to move and on October the current MKA chassis was rejected. The reason was its armour was too thin and the engine compartment and cooling system were too current, meaning this would need to be simplified so that Germany wouldn’t be selling its latest technology. The requested changes were made and the only trial vehicle was assembled in January 1940. It featured 25 mm of frontal armour and a temporary Maybach HL 98 engine, rated at 230 HP, that would later be replaced by the HL 76 once it was complete. Unfortunately, by the time the prototype was complete, World War II had well underway, the program was cancelled and the vehicle was scrapped.

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While the LKA would see limited success with small numbers sold to Spain and China before 1939, the SKA was cancelled in 1937 because it was too expensive and the MKA only saw the one prototype build. With the increasing war the search for new foreign partners, that could potentially buy the MKA, turned increasingly difficult if not impossible. New Panzer III models also surpassed the MKA in every aspect, so there was no reason to introduce the outdated MKA to the German army either. Nonetheless, the MKA was an important step in German tank production, the 4.5 cm Kanone L/50 might have served as an inspiration for the KwK 38 and KwK 39 and its suspension and hull would undoubtedly lay the groundwork for Krupp’s development of the Panzer IV.

The MKA will be introduced as a Tier II, Premium light tank in World of Tanks, the class change in the game is most probably for game balance, but it could fit well as a medium tank instead.

Sources: aviarmor.net; wot-cone.blogspot.com; Jentz, Thomas L. & Doyle, Hillary L. Panzer Tracts No.3-1 Panzerkampfwagen III Ausf.A, B, C, und D, 2006

 

PigeonDeVerdun: Marking your French tanks.

Hello everyone, I am Aj St. Charles (otherwise known as PigeonDeVerdun), and Harkonnen has generously allowed me to write historical articles for TDB. I am very excited to be here, and I will do my utmost to bring you quality content in the form of interesting and relevant historical articles, tank tree proposals, and the like.

My background: I received a bachelor’s in History with a focus on Military History in 2016, and French military history, armored vehicles, language, and development are my biggest interests and passions. However, I am an American, and getting my hands on authentic sources can be very time consuming, thus it is unlikely that I will be able to contribute more than once a month.

Of course, regardless of whether or not you like or dislike this article, your feedback is welcomed. Only through comments and discourse will Harkonnen and I know if this is something this community would enjoy. With all that out of the way, let’s dig in to some history!


Marking Your French Tanks

Let’s face it. Wargaming has been known to take some, let’s say, historical liberties, with the game in order to produce more content, be that the line of Chinese Tank Destroyers, the FV215b, various modelling problems, etc..  However, World of Tanks has done a great job with incorporating historical content where it is possible, and their efforts to make lines of tank development from around the world into a fun video game are commendable.

My article today will be a small celebration of one aspect World of Tanks gets right (but could always be expanded and improved upon): Emblems with historical significance. Specifically, emblems you should put on your French tanks for maximum historical accuracy.

The Card System

Certain French tank battalions used a card system, in which the suit and coloring indicated the compagnie (company) and peloton de cavalerie (cavalry platoon) to which each tank belonged. This means that the following decals can be used if you don’t particularly like the roundel (which itself was widely used, mostly among cavalerie divisions [think mediums and lights]):

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While the colors can change between units, usually blue signifies the 1ere compagnie, white the 2e compagnie, and red the 3e compagnie, so that the colors follow the Bleu Blanc Rouge of the French flag. All images above would work, with the black spade being the most questionable choice. Spades are the first peloton, hearts second, diamonds third, and clubs the fourth. The emblems that show the entirety of a playing card are not historically accurate, and I don’t recommend using them to this end.

The Division Symbols

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The first, and arguably most well regarded is the 2e Division Blindée (2nd Armored Division), led by Général Leclerc. The exploits of this division are lengthy, glorious, and complicated, but English sources are not as difficult to come by. Thus, for sake of space, I will continue their story at another time.

This is of course a great symbol for any French tank, but it would work just as well for several foreign tanks that fought in Free French units and the French Army after the war. These include the M4 Sherman, Wolverine, M3 and M5 Stuarts, M8A1, Crusader, Valentine, American arties tiers 3-5 and could be extended to the Jackson, Cromwell, Panther, Tiger I, Tiger II, Chaffee, Pershing, and M46 Patton. Admittedly, the Tigers probably aren’t fair game, but some were used until they broke down by Free French units in the Liberation of France, and Le Musée des Blindés de Saumur (Armor Museum of Saumur [think Bovington but French]) does have a running Tiger II. Really, it just depends on how much you want to use French markings. My opinion: This works best for Heavy and Medium tanks.

Cavalier

The second is lesser known, but interesting because it is a unit that fought during the Battle of France. It is the symbol of the 4e Régiment de Cuirassiers (4th Regiment of Cuirassiers), without the 4 under the cuirassier. They had the unenvious task of moving into northern Belgium and making the link between Dutch and Belgian troops. They were to provide them with badly needed firepower to defend the Dyle Line, as was planned on by France, Belgium, Britain, and the Netherlands. Unfortunately, this crack unit was in the wrong place at the wrong time; the place being Belgium, and the time being simultaneous to the German push through the Ardennes. Thus, there chance to be a decisive attacking force was stunted by being forced into a defensive stance.

In addition, their lack of consistent fuel crippled their ability to attack in force, and only partial efforts could be made at any given time. Later, some tanks would have to tow others during withdrawals due to lack of fuel. Nevertheless, they would take part in the defensive fighting around Dunkerque, with Commandant Marchal using the remaining tank forces to act as a last defense, one that could not be saved, to defend the embarkment of the l’Armée du Nord (North Army) onto Allied ships.

In only 11 days, the unit was evacuated, disembarked, and reformed despite lacking replacement tanks and supplies. The unit then rejoined the front lines and continued a fighting retreat for the next 15 days. Threatened by constant encirclement, the Régiment manages to stay one step ahead and fights many delaying actions to keep the path south open for other infantry and armored units. The Régiment only stopped fighting with the signing of the Armistice. The historical tanks to wear this symbol are the H 35(39) and the Somua S35. My opinion: This works best for Medium tanks.

Now, I did say France had 3 unique symbols. What is the last? This is it:

GameCross.jpg

It doesn’t show up in the military section or even the flags and standards section of the emblems, rather, it shows up in the same category as the playing cards. It is a very poorly done conversion of this symbol:

Cross

I only realized this after stumbling across this:

FCM

This is the symbol for the 503e RCC (Régiment de chars de combat [Combat Tank Regiment]), which was entirely made up of FCM 36s. In 1939 it was joined to the 503e Groupe de Batallions de Chars (503rd Battalion Group) as the 4e and 7e Batallion de Chars de Combat. Its most notable contribution to the French war effort was a series of smaller counter attacks around Voncq, oblique to the larger battle of Sedan. On June 9th, an effective supporting action became a combined tank and infantry assault, and was the highlight of their contribution. Unfortunately, most of the tanks were lost to withering anti-tank fire, and the unit was withdrawn for rearming. The historical tank for this symbol is the seldom-played FCM 36. My opinion: This works best for Light tanks.

My recommendations for Wargaming would be to add the following:

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The 4e Division Cuirassiers: Famous for being the unit with which de Gaulle counter-attacked at Montcornet. While unable to turn the tide, de Gaulle did manage to halt the advance in his section of the front for a time. Unfortunately, his counter-attack theories counted on air support and divisions of combined infantry and tanks, neither of which were available in quantity for his counter-attack. Suited for the B1, D2, and R35. Heavy Tanks, Medium Tanks

11

The 41e Batallion de Chars de Combat: Famous for Capitaine Billotte, and his fantastic offensive in the town of Boulagne-Billancourt. If you are interested in his efforts, I can visit this topic in the future. Suited for the B1. (On a side note, for the love of tanks, add “Eure” as a name choice. Please Wargaming.) Heavy Tanks.

Régiment Colonial de Chasseurs de Char (1944-1945), Régiment Colonial de Chasseurs de Char (1946-1958), and/or Régiment Blindé de Fusiliers Marins: These units would be the French equivalent of the American Tank Destroyer Forces. Suited for French tank destroyers, and the Wolverine and Jackson. These units would continue to fight in the First Indochina War, albeit with a much more accurate tank destroyer in their emblem. Fun fact, the last option are actually French Marines without a ship to defend, and wore some pretty great caps. If anyone is interested in the French approach to using American tank destroyers, this could be yet another topic for the future. Tank Destroyers.

15

1ere Division Blindée: This division is lesser known these days (mostly due to the attention the 2e DB receives), but it was the first Armored Division to reach the Rhine. They carried on fighting through the Black Forest, and were also the first to reach the Danube. While the French 1st Army would be the first to cross both the Rhine and the Danube, the 1ere Division Blindée was the first armored division to reach each. Suited for the same tanks as the 2e Division Blindée. Heavy Tanks, Medium Tanks.


I hope this article was informative and at least a little interesting. If you do find it useful or fun, please let me know, as there is plenty to write on this topic.


Sources
– Vauvillier, Francois. The Encyclopedia of French Tanks and Armoured Fighting Vehicles: 1914-1940. Paris: Histoire and Collections , 2014.
https://www.chars-francais.net/2015/index.php/journaux-de-marche/liste-des-journaux?task=view&id=620
http://france1940.free.fr/armee/colours.html
– Chars-francais.net
Battlefield: Episode 1: The Fall of France. Directed by Dave Flitton. Youtube.com. August 15, 2012. Accessed November 10, 2017. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbKYbLUkIpk.
https://www.chars-francais.net/2015/index.php/journaux-de-marche/liste-des-journaux?task=view&id=643
– Vauvillier, Francois. The Encyclopedia of French Tanks and Armoured Fighting Vehicles. 2014.
http://www.worldwarphotos.info/gallery/france/tanks-france/fcm-36/

 

French Battleship & Battlecruiser – Tier VII, VIII, IX & X Proposal by Volcanares

The last article for the French Battleship proposal, all Tiers VII, VIII, IX and X proposed by Volcanares.

Please note this is just a proposal by a player. There is no guarantee Wargaming will implement this branch as its proposed, neither should you consider this article as confirmation of a French Battleship Branch is coming to the game.


Tier VII – Strasbourg – Battleship

Characteristics

Displacement 27 300t
Length 214m
Width 31m
Speed 29.5 knots
Main Armament 8x 330mm Guns
Secondary Armament & AA
16x 130mm + 4x 37mm + 8x 13.2mm Guns
Torpedoes N/A
Armor Belt: 283mm  Deck: 115-125mm Turrets: 360mm
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Strasbourg Battleship
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Strasbourg Battleship

Tier VII – 37,000t Type A 28 – Battleship

Characteristics

Displacement 37 000t
Length 254m
Width 30.5m
Speed 33 knots
Main Armament 12x 305mm Guns
Secondary Armament & AA
12x 130mm + 8x 90mm + 12x 37mm Guns
Torpedoes N/A
Armor Belt: 220-280mm  Deck: 75mm Turrets: 120-155mm Conning Tower: 120-155mm
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37 000t Type A 28 Battleship

Tier VII – 37,000t Type B – Battleship

Characteristics

Displacement 37 000t
Length 235m
Width 31m
Speed 27 knots
Main Armament 6x 406mm Guns
Secondary Armament & AA
12x 130mm + 8x 90mm + 12x 37mm Guns
Torpedoes N/A
Armor Belt: 220-280mm  Deck: 75mm Turrets: 180-250mm Conning Tower: 200-230mm
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37 000t Type B Battleship

Tier VII – 37,000t Type A27 – Battleship

Characteristics

Displacement 37 000t
Length 254m
Width 30.5m
Speed 33 knots
Main Armament 12x 305mm Guns
Secondary Armament & AA
12x 130mm + 8x 90mm + 12x 37mm Guns
Torpedoes N/A
Armor Belt: 220-280mm  Deck: 75mm Turrets: 120-155mm Conning Tower: 120-155mm
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37 000t Type A 27

Tier VIII – Richelieu – Battleship

Characteristics

Displacement 35 000t
Length 248m
Width 33m
Speed 32.6 knots
Main Armament 8x 380mm Guns
Secondary Armament & AA
9x 152mm + 12x 100mm + 56x 40mm + 48x 20mm Guns
Torpedoes N/A
Armor Belt: 330mm  Deck: 150-170mm Turrets: 430mm Conning Tower: 340mm
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Richelieu Battleship
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Richelieu Battleship

Tier VIII – Gascogne – Battleship

Characteristics

Displacement 35 000t
Length 254m
Width 30.5m
Speed 33 knots
Main Armament 8x 380mm Guns
Secondary Armament & AA
9x 152mm + 16x 100mm Guns
Torpedoes N/A
Armor Belt: 330mm  Deck: 150-170mm
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Gascogne Battleship
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This picture is a photoshop, Gascogne was never built.

Tier VIII – Jean Bart– Battleship

Characteristics

Displacement 35 000t
Length 248m
Width 35.5m
Speed 32 knots
Main Armament 8x 380mm Guns
Secondary Armament & AA
9x 152mm + 24x 100mm + 28x 57mm Guns
Torpedoes N/A
Armor Belt: 330mm  Deck: 150-170mm Turrets: 430mm Conning Tower: 340mm
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Jean Bart Battleship
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Jean Bart Battleship

Tier IX – Alsace Type I – Battleship

Characteristics

Displacement 40 000t
Length 252m
Width 35m
Speed 31 knots
Main Armament 9x 380mm Guns
Secondary Armament & AA
9x 152mm + 16x 100mm Guns
Torpedoes N/A
Armor Belt: 330mm  Deck: 170-180mm Turrets: ???mm Conning Tower: ???mm

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Tier IX – Alsace Type II – Battleship

Characteristics

Displacement 42 500t
Length 256m
Width 35.5m
Speed 31 knots
Main Armament 9x 406mm Guns
Secondary Armament & AA
9x 152mm + 16x 100mm Guns
Torpedoes N/A
Armor Belt: 330mm  Deck: 170-180mm Turrets: ???mm Conning Tower: ???mm

Tier X – Alsace Type III – Battleship

Characteristics

Displacement 40 000t
Length 252m
Width 35m
Speed 31 knots
Main Armament 12x 380mm Guns OR 9x 450mm
Secondary Armament & AA
9x 152mm + 24x 100mm Guns
Torpedoes N/A
Armor Belt: 330mm  Deck: 170-180mm Turrets: 430mm Conning Tower: ???mm
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Alsace Type III – Battleship

Tier X battleship could have been fitted with 450mm guns that were developed for the French navy, to create a different Tier X battleship.

New French Heavy Tanks: What are they?

Wargaming decided to share a little more detail about a new mini French heavy branch that could be coming soon. While we could see the tanks in HD and what it looks like their final stage, there weren’t any details to what vehicles they are.

Thanks to Volcanares and Dreamer, two longtime readers for sharing all this information about which possible tanks we could be seeing in the game.

Tier VIII – AMX 65t

New French Tank
Tier VIII – AMX 65t

The AMX 65t was the easiest one, Wargaming announced this tank on Supertest back in 2016 and most probably is just reusing it to fill up the branch. I applaud them for this, as it’s better to have more regular tanks than just another Premium. No, it’s not another fantasy tank, and there are detailed documents about it.

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AMX 65t

The AMX 65t will fit Tier VIII position without any difficulties, while a pike-nose can make it a little bit different from its predecessor, it will still feel like a natural successor.

FAMH Turret
AMX 65t FAMH Turret

The AMX 65t will have a strong turret, good frontal armour, but less mobility than the AMX 50-100. Still, it will be a great first tank to the alternative branch.

Tier IX & X: What are they?

Tiers IX and X is where me, Volcanares and Dreamer started to go a little bit mental about what they could be. The following image could very much describe us while talking about the subject.

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How we looked like while looking for which tank is what.

Both Tier IX and X have what is called the T.C.B. turret on them, and both will be armed with a 120mm gun, most probably the 120 mm SA46, or something very similar.

TCB CAFL Turret
CAFL TCB Turret

But, what will make these tanks different is the hull, and on Wargaming video, we can see the AMX M4 49 hull is being used. Now the main question is: which one? In my opinion, we will see the Tier IX with a similar hull to the Tier VIII AMX M4 mle. 49, with armour values in between 190 to 220mm. The tank would use the AMX 65t turret as the stock turret, while equipped with the same 100mm gun and use the T.C.B. turret fitted with a 120mm gun as the top configuration.

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AMX M4 49 with FAMH Turret

 At Tier X we might see one of these two hulls: Char M4 ESSAIS or Char M4 ETUDES, with the T.C.B. turret fitted with a 120mm gun.

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AMX CHAR M4 ESSAIS (Etudes)
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AMX CHAR M4 ETUDES

The first has one of them has an extra layer of armour attached to the upper and lower frontal hull, while the second the frontal hull was made thicker. The armour value on these hulls could go up between 220 to 280mm mm thick, making the tank a slower but heavily armoured alternative to AMX 50 B. If you look closely at the Tier X picture, you can see the same hull shape used on these two proposals.

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French Heavy Tank Tier IX – AMX M4 mle. 51

Other alternatives?

Other tanks were suggested while we were talking about these tanks, AMX 70t, AMX 50 TCB or AMX 50 Surblindé, but we all came to the conclusion these aren’t any of these vehicles. Why? Mainly because of the hull shape, just have a look at some examples.

I’ve reached Wargaming in regards of these tanks, trying to get more details and even their official names, but I got told they would share more about them closer to release. I guess we will have to wait for a while more, who knows, maybe they will come before the end of 2017?

FV205 or FV217: FV215b (183) replacement?

Wargaming announced the possible replacement of British tank destroyer FV215b (183), but what is that new tank? Where did it come from? Another fake?

Introducing: FV205 and FV2017 “Badger”

FV205 SP medium and FV217 “Badger” were two self-propelled gun based on the FV201  “Universal Tank” proposals.

FV217 Back
FV205 SP Medium AT – Based on FV201 Caernarvon – Image credits to Pgopogo 

According to sources, FV205 SP Medium AT, based on the FV201 Caernarvon “Universal Tank”, cancelled in April 1949 and the FV217 SP 120 Medium AT, based on the FV214 Conqueror “Universal Tank”. The FV205 never got past the wooden model stage and FV217 never made it past paper.

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FV217 “Badger” – Based on FV201 Caernarvon – Image credits to Tanks Encyclopedia

There wasn’t any known gun specification for the FV205, but the FV217 was to be armed with a 120mm gun and was intended to be a cheaper and simpler alternative to the Conqueror. It would also have had a lower profile and would have been harder to hit while working as an ambush tank.

So, as you can see, the FV205 and FV217 aren’t fake and are more than capable to fit the British tank destroyers Tier X position. Either one would be a natural successor for Tier IX Tortoise.

My final thoughts on this replacement are that this replacement was necessary, but will be done correctly? I believe the FV215b (183) should actually be moved to FV4005 Stage II branch as an alternative Tier X, instead of a direct replacement. This would enable players to choose which tank they would like, a less armoured, more mobile or a better armoured, less mobile version of the Deathstar. But that’s just my opinion, what’s yours?

Article updated with more accurate information on 15/09/2017.
Article updated with more accurate information on 28/09/2017.
Source: Tanks Encyclopedia & arcaneafvs.com

French Battleship & Battlecruiser – Tier IV, V & VI Proposal by Volcanares

In today’s article I bring you all Tier IV, V and VI French Battleship and Battlecruiser, proposed by Volcanares. Later this week I’ll publish another article with Tiers VII, VIII, IX and X.

Please note this is just a proposal by a player. There is no guarantee Wargaming will implement this branch as its proposed, neither should you consider this article as confirmation of a French Battleship Branch is coming to the game.

Tier IV – Bretagne – Battleship

Characteristics

Displacement 23 500t
Length 166m
Width 27m
Speed 20 knots
Main Armament 10x 340mm Guns
Secondary Armament & AA
22x 138mm Guns + 4x 47mm Guns
Torpedoes 4x 450mm
Armor Belt: 180-270mm  Deck: 30-40mm Turrets: 400mm Conning Tower: 314mm

Pictures

Tier IV – 23 333 type

Characteristics

Displacement 23 333t
Length 213m
Width 27.5m
Speed 30 knots
Main Armament 8x 305mm Guns
Secondary Armament & AA
12x 130mm Guns
Torpedoes None
Armor Belt: 215-230mm  Deck: 100-130mm Turrets: ???mm Conning Tower: ???mm

Tier IV – Lorraine – Battleship – Premium

Characteristics

Displacement 23 500t
Length 166m
Width 27m
Speed 20 knots
Main Armament 8x 340mm Guns
Secondary Armament & AA
22x 138mm Guns + 4x 47mm Guns
Torpedoes 4x 450mm
Armor Belt: 180-270mm  Deck: 30-40mm Turrets: 400mm Conning Tower: 314mm

Pictures

Tier V – Normandie – Battleship

Characteristics

Displacement 25 250t
Length 176m
Width 27m
Speed 21 knots
Main Armament 12x 340mm Guns
Secondary Armament & AA
24x 138mm Guns + 6x 47mm Guns
Torpedoes 6x 450mm
Armor Belt: 300mm  Deck: 50mm Turrets: 250-300mm Conning Tower: 300mm

Pictures

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Tier V – 23 690t type

Characteristics

Displacement 23 690t
Length 196m
Width 28m
Speed 29 knots
Main Armament 10x 305mm Guns
Secondary Armament & AA
8x 138mm Guns + 16x 100mm Guns
Torpedoes None
Armor Belt: 180-220mm  Deck: 80mm Turrets: 155-300mm Conning Tower: 200-230mm

Pictures

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Tier V – Durand-Viel A – Battlecruiser

Characteristics

Displacement 27 500t
Length 210m
Width 27m
Speed 27 knots
Main Armament 8x 340mm Guns
Secondary Armament & AA
24x 138mm Guns
Torpedoes 4x 450mm
Armor Belt: 270mm  Deck: ??mm Turrets: 270mm Conning Tower: ??mm

Pictures

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Tier VI – Lyon – Battleship

Characteristics

Displacement 29 000t
Length 195m
Width 29m
Speed 23 knots
Main Armament 16x 340mm Guns
Secondary Armament & AA
24x 138mm Guns + 48x 47mm Guns
Torpedoes 6x 450mm
Armor Belt: 300mm  Deck: 63.5mm Turrets: 340mm Conning Tower: 300mm

Pictures

Tier VI – 26 500t type

Characteristics

Displacement 29 000t
Length 215m
Width 31.1m
Speed 29.5 knots
Main Armament 8x 330mm Guns
Secondary Armament & AA
16x 130mm Guns
Torpedoes None
Armor Belt: 250mm  Deck: 130-140mm Turrets: ???mm Conning Tower: ???mm

Tier VI – Béarn – Battleship

Characteristics

Displacement 25 250t
Length 176m
Width 27m
Speed 21 knots
Main Armament 6x 400mm Guns
Secondary Armament & AA
24x 138mm Guns + 6x 47mm Guns
Torpedoes 6x 450mm
Armor Belt: 300mm  Deck: 50mm Turrets: ???mm Conning Tower: 300mm

Pictures

Tier VI – Gille – Battleship

Characteristics

Displacement 28 247t
Length 205m
Width 27m
Speed 28 knots
Main Armament 12x 340mm Guns
Secondary Armament & AA
24x 138mm Guns
Torpedoes 6x 450mmm
Armor Belt: 270mm  Deck: ???mm Turrets: 270mm Conning Tower: ???mm

Pictures

See Also

French Battleship & Battlecruiser – Tier II & III Proposal by Volcanares

Hello everyone,

Volcanares emailed me a big file whith loads of French Battleships and Battlecruisers. He created a proposal branch that mixes both battleships and battlecruisers, with several alternatives on some tiers.

Because the list is very long, twenty five ships in total, I’ve decided to split the article into several ones by Tiers. The first part will have all Tier II and III proposals, so the article doesn’t end up very long.

Again, I’m no expert here, so I’ll leave it up to you guys to evaluate if this could be a good branch for World of Warships, if there are any particular ship you would like to see, etc.

Please note this is just a proposal by a player. There is no guarantee Wargaming will implement this branch as its proposed, neither should you consider this article as confirmation of a French Battleship Branch is coming to the game.

Author: Volcanares
Date: 09/06/2017


I’ve created a list with French Battleships and Battlecruisers which could be added to World of Warships,.

I gathered data from several places, as accurate as possible, but there could be some errors.

According to the sources, data change because of the year and the evolution or improvement of the ships and projects. Furthermore Wargaming will have to balance and to create different hulls and other modules, so the data might change even if these are the good ones.

I’ve added  Tier II, Pre-Dreadnought, even if I know they will not be added to the game for now, but who knows ? Maybe one day.

French Battleship & Battlecruiser Proposal

French Battleship Branch Proposal

Tier II – Danton

Characteristics

 Displacement  18 500t
 Length  145m
 Width 25,8m
 Speed  19,2 knots
 Main Armament  4x 305mm guns + 12x 240mm
 Secondary Armament & AA 16x 75mm
 Torpedoes 2x 450mm
 Armour

Belt: 200-255mm  Deck: 75mm Turrets: 225-280mm Conning Tower: 300mm

Pictures

Tier II – Liberté

Characteristics

 Displacement 14 750t
 Length 134m
 Width 24m
 Speed 19,4knots
 Main Armament 4x 305mm guns + 10x 194mm
 Secondary Armament & AA 12x 65mm + 8x 47mm
 Torpedoes 2x 450mm
Armour

Belt: 280mm  Deck: 120mm Turrets: 355mm Conning Tower: 305mm

Pictures

Tier II – République

Characteristics

 Displacement 14 750t
 Length 133m
 Width 24m
 Speed 19knots
 Main Armament 4x 305mm guns
 Secondary Armament & AA 18x 164mm
 Torpedoes 2x 450mm
Armour Belt: 280mm  Deck: 55mm Turrets: 355mm Conning Tower: 305mm

Pictures

Tier III – Courbet

Characteristics

 Displacement  23 500t
 Length  166m
 Width 27m
 Speed  21 knots
 Main Armament  12x 305mm guns
 Secondary Armament & AA 22x 138mm + 4x 47mm
 Torpedoes 4x 450mm
 Armour Belt: 180-270mm  Deck: 30-70mm Turrets: 250-290mm Conning Tower: 300mm

Pictures

Tier III – 17 500t type

Characteristics

Displacement 17 500t
Length 205m
Width 24.5m
Speed 35 knots
Main Armament 8x 305mm guns
Secondary Armament & AA 6x 90mm + 10x 37.5mm
Torpedoes N/A
Armour Belt: 150-180mm Deck: 75mm Turrets: 80-155mm Conning Tower: 100-130mm

Pictures

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